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TCP, HTTP protocol options
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tommybcool



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: TCP, HTTP protocol options Reply with quote

Admin. I sense a lot of confusion about the TCP vs HTTP protocol. I've been using Umedia for years and I'm still a bit confused (as if you haven't noticed). Correct me if I'm wrong (as if you haven't before) are not all streams whether live or file, TCP? That it only becomes a HTTP protocol stream if it's fed via a web server. And the only time you would apply http protocol (filter?) is when you want to use Streaming Media Player to view a stream from a site/source that's using IIS and UTTP Proxy? Otherwise, everything is TCP protocol.
I have never used IIS and UTTPproxy (well I tried to get TVChannelchanger working, got the display, but I couldn't get it to work, and haven't tried since). I've always used the Autoload_multibrowser.html scripting to make my personal streaming websites and that always employs TCP protocol source via port 5119 that feeds the websites. I use Apache to host the websites which of course are accessed via port 80. I get the opinion that many users of Umedia software feel that if it's embedded in a webpage that they have to use http protocol requiring IIS and UTTPproxy, which isn't necessary. I guess the definitive question might be, under what conditions is http protocol required? To this ill-informed class 3 newbie, I only see it's value if https is important and security levels are required.
Otherwise, what is the difference between using IIS and Apache (or others) for webhosting. I post this because I think your answer could clear up some confusion. Why should I ever use IIS when other webserver software is available? People with Xp Home (which doesn't support IIS) don't think they can host a Umedia embedded webpage, which totally isn't true.
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK.

First of all some education:
Any application, not only web browser, can send HTTP requests and get HTTP responses from web server. Good examples are download accelerators - standalone apps that create HTTP traffic.

Unreal Streaming Media Player can connect directly to Unreal Media Server via TCP connection. Same is true about ActiveX control hosted on web page.

Unreal Streaming Media Player can send HTTP request to UHttpProxy running under IIS web server, which in turn connects to Unreal Media Server running on the same computer.
Same is true about ActiveX control hosted on web page.
Media file or live stream is sent to the palyer as HTTP response payload, similarly to file downloading from web server.

In short, UHttpProxy allows connection to Media Server through IIS.
(No any other web server is supported).

Two main reasons to use UHttpProxy:
1. Many corporate firewalls only allow HTTP traffic over port 80.
Corporate users are not able to view streams via TCP (even if you modify Media Server's port from 5119 to 80)

2. Security - encrypting the whole socket channel - use HTTPS - IIS has built-in support for that - install a certificate and you get 100% encryption of your streaming data.

With version 5.5 of Media Server you have yet another way of streaming via HTTP: MMS streaming. It's actually MMS over HTTP.
You can change Media Server's port from 5119 to 80 and let users connect with MMS players such as WMP.
Very similar to Windows Media Services - many providers change it's default port to 80 just in order to penetrate through corporate firewalls.

However - if you run web server on the same machine - then port 80 is already taken! UHttpProxy is the answer to this situation.

Admin
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tommybcool



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Admin. I'm sure many on the forum will gain from that explanation.

In my case I host Live, Umedia and Apache servers on my PC. Embedded webpages are hosted in the Apache root folder. They use variations of the Autoload_multibrowser.html in the SDK, some with flow controls, some without. And the code calls for TCP, mydomain:5119, both livealias and playlist sources. It works great and I can view streams from anywhere.

So is it true that the only reason for me to use IIS and UTTpproxy would be if I needed https? Or in 1) the corporate firewall scenario you mention, do you mean the UMServer is hosted behind the firewall or do you mean viewers cannot access the streams because of only port 80 being allowed through the firewall. I hope that's clear.
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and I can view streams from anywhere


No. That's the point.
Of course I mean that viewers cannot access the streams because of only port 80 being allowed through the firewall.

So these corporate viewers can not view your streams right now.
UHttpProxy can be a solution.

Admin
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You host your server without any firewall and all ports are open.
Very good.
That's what you are doing right this moment.

I am sitting at a big corporation right now. My corporation has a firewall allowing me only to send HTTP request over port 80.

Now I want to view your streams.
I open web browser which connects to your Apache server over port 80 and brings me your web page. Great! I can see the ActiveX control!
But now ActiveX control tries to connect to your Media Server over TCP port 5119. "Media Server doesn't respond" - that's what I get.

Do you understand the problem now?
Same happens if I use Streaming Media Player.

You are saying "I can view streams from anywhere".
This is wrong. Not from anywhere. Only from places allowing TCP port 5119 in their internet gateway firewalls.

How could you correct this situation?
Run IIS instead of Apache and install UHttpProxy.
Change your web page code to "UseHTTP".
Then ActiveX control will connect to your web server via port 80, so I will be able to view your streams.

Admin
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tommybcool



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never realized port forwarding on the server end could affect the client side! I thought the corporate firewall only allowed hosting of servers on port 80, I didn't realize it could also affect (and reject) replies from servers on ports other than 80. So if I'm at your corporation I couldn't run my home automation, ftp, or remote desktop servers. Now I understand the reasons behind IIS and Uproxy. Wow, I've learned something today. Thank you.

I just haven't hung around enough major corporation security centers I guess.
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I never realized port forwarding on the server end could affect the client side! I thought the corporate firewall only allowed hosting of servers on port 80, I didn't realize it could also affect (and reject) replies from servers on ports other than 80.


What port forwarding on the server? How is it related here?
"Corporate firewall allowed hosting of servers on port 80?"
What? I don't understand what you are writing.

All along this topic I was not talking about server hosted by corporation.
Opposite. Viewers are sitting inside corporate LAN connected to internet via router. There is a firewall on this router that throws away all requests except HTTP port 80. The server is hosted by you. Or by UTube. You control your server. It's easy for you to open all ports on your side - it's yours. But corporate viewers don't control their firewall, so on thier side evil sysadmin has closed all ports in their firewall, except 80, so they can Google.

Do you understand it. My sysadmin controls my firewall, you control your firewall. Yours is open, mine is closed (except port 80).
So I can't connect to your server.
How else should I explain that?

But I think you get it, because the following is exactly right:

Quote:
So if I'm at your corporation I couldn't run my home automation, ftp, or remote desktop servers.


Admin
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tommybcool



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I obviously confuse server side router firewall and opening of ports through that firewall with client side firewall. Got to do some more research on firewalls. I do understand what you are saying, I just don't describe it so well. Believe it or not I once experimented with the Win2k IPSec firewall configuration.
I was under the (false) impression that while a webpage hosting Umedia was being streamed via port 80 to you, I mistakenly thought UMServer which is streamed via port 5119 handled that port access internally on the same PC. In other words, I mistakenly thought the entire package was being delivered via port 80. What you are saying is one would need access on the client side to both ports, 80 and 5119. Uproxy and IIS handles that internal access to UMServer on the same PC so it is sent as an entire package via port 80.
I notice in the description of HTTPS the architecture page talks of IIS default ports of 80/443. So if port 443 is not open then you cannot access HTTPS sites behind your corp firewall? Sorry if that is a dumb question.
I'll bet I'm not the only one that has learned from this discussion. Next you can teach me php - ha. Just kidding.
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, all correct!
Absolutely, for HTTPS port 443 also must be open in the corporate firewall.
Some companies open it, some don't.

Admin
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tommybcool



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Yes, all correct!
Absolutely, for HTTPS port 443 also must be open in the corporate firewall.
Some companies open it, some don't.

Admin
Hoorah! Now for php? (Still kidding).
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osetivo



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tommybcool wrote:
Now for php?


PHP+SQL+UMS = Very Happy

I am not a programmer and never did an ounce of web development before I start my web based media server. Of course, I didn't do this overnight and I'm too embarrassed to say just how long it took, but it's been a fun learning process and the end product has certainly been useful.

http://www.laidbackcrew.com/kelvarnsen/PHP-PMPa.wmv
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Scott
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osetivo



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aww crap wrong bitrate
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Scott
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tommybcool



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! I couldn't read the hyroglyphics, but we get the ghist. I played around with Kplaylist, but what you've got is something to be proud of. Using a windows media server with media center? I think UTubeŠ would fit in there nicely.
10 years ago I told people the PC would become a part of the livingroom. (I still don't have one in there unless I take a laptop to see how LSU or the Saint's are doing - ha!)
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osetivo



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tommybcool wrote:
I couldn't read the hyroglyphics
You have to resize the video fullscreen to be able to read text, even then screencaptured video looks horrible when compared to the actual webpage's video.

tommybcool wrote:
Using a windows media server with media center?
My 'server' is just an XP box with IIS, the client PC's use Meedio HTPC software, not MCE. I don't use PC based DVR. only ose'TiVo' Wink

tommybcool wrote:
10 years ago I told people the PC would become a part of the livingroom.


I love my PCs being connected to TV's, but it's not a perfect solution. PCs are a still a b!tch to maintain in comparison to a media appliance like a TiVo. No one has gotten it 'just right' yet, but the media extender device connected to a backend media server is certainly the right concept.

LOL, about 7 years ago, I started looking for a simple realtime media transcoding application for web streaming. I was amazed that I couldn't find anything, I even begged friends who could program to build one using Windows Media Encoder. Nada! Of course, now we have Orb, Slingbox, Transcode360, Webguide and lots others. Oh yeah! and UMS, which fits part of 'my' concept of the ultimate home media server but it's missing 'realtime transcoding' of media files for bandwidth limited devices and connections (cellphone), which I find critical.

ADMIN: no that's not a hint at a feature request, I know the official position on the subject.

PS Geaux Tigers!
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trini



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Streaming Via Port 80 Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
Run IIS instead of Apache and install UHttpProxy.
Change your web page code to "UseHTTP".
Then ActiveX control will connect to your web server via port 80, so I will be able to view your streams.

Admin


I am trying to set up steaming via port 80 using Umedia Player as indicated above and would like to get some further details on the steps involved. My environment works perfectly on the local LAN using the default port 5119. However I would like the Media Player to stream on the internet using port 80.

I am using IIS (with UHttPproxy installed), Umedia Server and Live server all running on the same box.
I have the following questions -
1. Do I need to make any configuration changes to IIS to activate UHttProxy since I only ran the install program and it said the installation was successful.
2. What changes do I need to make to Media Server and Live server to use port 80.
3. What changes do I need to make to the http code on my IIS server ? Do I have to change "UseTCP()" to "UseHTTP()" ? Here is a short extract of the code

"//load our custom logo first. Be careful! The page will freeze until the logo is fully
//downloaded! Don't use large images (10k-50k is the suggested size).
o.UseCustomLogo("http://localhost/ocaalogo.jpg");

o.UseTCP();
o.UseMediaServer("192.168.1.20:5119");
o.UseLiveAlias("CarlTV");
o.EnableFlowControl(true, false);
"

Thanks
Trini
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